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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:27:22 GMT
The Ex-Girlfriend - A - This gets my vote for most underrated episode ever. They take great looks at the concept of dating a friend's ex and the awkwardness when acquaintances stop bothering saying hello. Seinfeld has dealt with little things like this, but it's never been this detailed and milked for everything it has. And it all works. The pacing is much improved over any season 1 episode, and it feels like the writers really knew what they were doing for the first time. The only weakness to this episode is that the actors didn't seem completely comfortable yet. I steadfastly maintain that the ex-girlfriend is the worst Seinfeld episode of all time. There is no hint of a coherent plot that runs through the episode, with story arcs that peak and fall at the wrong times, and anecdotes that are too big to be anecdotes but too small to be real plots (George and the back specialist.) George's own plot has potential (breaking up with a girlfriend) but they use it compltely wrong, and end the plot a third of the way through the episode. The first portion of the episde, George the action and he's talking to Jerry. Then afterwards, Jerry has the action and he's talking to george. This throws out any sense of balance that episodes should have, and we don't get the sense of any real journey from either character. Jerry's plot with the ex girlfriend just doesnt make sense, it provides an entire scene without one joke (the first in the car) and finally reaches an apex with the meeting in the coffee shop, where he tells George that he got with Marla. This could provide for some good humor, but it fails miserably, when George "doesnt care." Was that really the funniest direction they could go in? Okay, fine. But what really bugs me about this scene is that he randomly thinks he swallows a fly. This comes out of nowhere and goes nowhere and isn't funny. It's pretty much cartoon humor. But what really bugs me is that last scene, when Marla dumps Jerry, which also serves no plot purpose (we never get the feeling that he's fallen deeply inlove with her, thus we have no reason to either feel bad for him or revel in his misery, we are simply indifferent. Who cares if some random girl we've seen twice before dumps Jerry? I didn't) Also, only in a sitcom would the line Jerry be able to tell her "you're a cashier" after she states she has to respect her man's job. Jerry is pointing out her pure hypocracy, and in real life, she'd respond, but here, she just disregards the statement that completely undermines her credibility. And her complaints are stupid and dont make sense- "too much fluff?" Jerry's act doesnt have fluff. Jerry has proved her to be incompetent, which is a reason that HE HIMSELF should not give a crap whether she dumps him or not. He shouldnt giver her the light of day, let alone be upset that she dumps him. THUS its a complete waste of a scene, and is quite amatuerish. Not to mention that Elaine is used more like Kramer- telling stories rather than doing them, which works for Kramer because he's a good story teller, but Elaine is a boring story teller. Altogether, a very poorly constructed episode with only shades of good anecdotal humor. F
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:28:12 GMT
To me, the majority of your post consists of nitpicks and subjective "points". I thought it was hilarious when George swallowed the fly. And this episode is great because of the dialogue, not coherent story-telling. In Seinfeld's first few seasons, there weren't always well-developed stories. Sometimes it's simply a realistic series of events happening within a few days. In a show like The Simpsons, I'm less forgiving of episodes having two A stories, but Seinfeld is obvoiusly very flexible in its story structure from week to week, and it's still satisfying to me. There may be two A stories in this episode, but they're heavily connected. I didn't find the episode to be disjointed, everything flowed pretty naturally imo. Basically, you should stop trying to think of this episode in conventional terms and appreciate it for what it is.
As for the paragraph-long nitpick of the last scene, why shouldn't we get to see how Jerry ended the relationship? I found it to be necessary and the material to be strong. And getting hung up over one little line or inconsistancy seems more like a desperate attempt at finding flaws. I did notice that it was strange for her not to respond to Jerry's insult, but I didn't care because I still found the whole scene amusing. You can find minor errors like this in almost any episode of any series.
I will give you that Elaine's story-telling wasn't great. Her personality didn't feel like Elaine quite yet, and the acting was a bit off, but this didn't bother me much because the dialogue itself was great. I can really relate to Elaine's situation. Plus, giving this story to Kramer wouldn't make sense as he would never be in that situation.
Bottom line, this isn't a flawless episode and it's not very conventional (as if that's bad), but I know for sure that this is one of the high points of the series in terms of dialogue, and it really shows how funny a show can be even when nothing very significant is happening. This episode also shows marked improvement over the first season in terms of pacing and characterization, especially for Jerry.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:29:34 GMT
I'm not thinking of it in conventional terms per say, I'm thinking of it in terms of other Seinfeld episodes, and no matter what, all episodes must have coherent plot structure, or they are going to suffer. An episode like the stakeout is better because it sets up and develops a problem/solution well, and still contains funny dialogue. (George at the stakeout scene is hilarious.) Anyway, we have a beginning, where Jerry encounters a problem (he needs to meet the girl again) a middle, where he plans the stakeout, and an end, with a solution- he meets the girl. Also there's a running B-story with his conflict with Elaine. (which I'll admit is painful to watch) But even before the ex-girlfriend, Larry and the Seinfeld producers had the ability to construct coherent plots, and intermingle them with funny observations and anecdotes, "quone!"
The phone message is an example from the same season as the ex girlfriend of Larry and Jerry constructing creative, funny plots that had beginnings, middles and ends. One key aspect of Seinfeld is that the plot elements themselves are always funny. I read a biography on Jerry where he said the show was great because the plots themselves were funny- "they aren't ideas like 'my cousin comes to visit me' but theyre ideas like we need to get george a marble rye on the third floor.'" The ex girlfriend is a rare exception, where the plot itself is not humorous, instead almost soap opera like. George breaks up with a girl, Jerry gets with her. Other early eps have funny premises- Jerry offends a woman with a pony remark, Jerry and George stake out a woman at her building. These ideas are unique and funny. The ex girlfriend is pretty unique to seinfeld (in a bad way) in that it utilizes a completely conventional and overdone story topic, and although it tries to make it funny, it just doesnt work.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:30:28 GMT
And by the way, how do you feel about classic "nothing-happens" episodes like "The Chinese Restaurant" and "The Dinner Party"? I don't think there's any coherent plots there.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:32:05 GMT
And by the way, how do you feel about classic "nothing-happens" episodes like "The Chinese Restaurant" and "The Dinner Party"? I don't think there's any coherent plots there. I think these episodes work very well, i love the dinner party, because although it may be simply a bunch of random things happening, its all tied together by some kind of idea, that their waiting for a table, or that their on their way to a dinner party. These episodes all occur in one night, thus all the events that happen are intrinsicly tied together- they all impede the character's quest. Think how much the chinese restaurant would suck if there was no chinese restaurant, if all the random events like using the phone and bumping in to people you know just occured while they were strolling down the street for fun. The episode would have no means to be an episode. Itd just be "30 minutes in the life of...." I dont tune in to watch thirty random minutes in the life of a fictional character. Theres a reason its on TV, something that happens has to be special.I think these episodes work very well, i love the dinner party, because although it may be simply a bunch of random things happening, its all tied together by some kind of idea, that their waiting for a table, or that their on their way to a dinner party. These episodes all occur in one night, thus all the events that happen are intrinsicly tied together- they all impede the character's quest. Think how much the chinese restaurant would suck if there was no chinese restaurant, if all the random events like using the phone and bumping in to people you know just occured while they were strolling down the street for fun. The episode would have no means to be an episode. Itd just be "30 minutes in the life of...." I dont tune in to watch thirty random minutes in the life of a fictional character. Theres a reason its on TV, something that happens has to be special.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:32:27 GMT
The Ex-girlfriend would work if it was a glimpse into the character's lives while theyre not on TV. But as an episode of the same length and equal value, its not up to par.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:34:00 GMT
The Busboy - C- - I pretty much feel how Jason, Julia and Michael felt. "Uh...I liked that George and Kramer scene, anyway." Outside of that scene, there are only a few moments here and there that made me chuckle. This episode gives me the impression that the writers still didn't know what they were doing, both with George's character and all the monologues.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:35:02 GMT
The Baby Shower - B+ -I think it's more of a convergence of story lines that might be a little too coincidental, but there's nothing too out-there for me. This is the first time that Kramer really felt like Kramer to me, and he was hilarious. Just lots of good humor. Even if none of the stories themselves are that great, I still like how they all happen at the same place and mingle with each other. Overall, one of the most entertaining of season 2.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:55:18 GMT
The Baby Shower - I love when George gets the cake shoved onto his already ruined shirt. Also the speach by Mary -- can't forget that.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:56:37 GMT
The Jacket - B+ This one has slipped a little for me. There's only one (great) main plot, so it feels a bit thin. And, to mention a couple flaws, I thought the pacing was pretty slow until they're actually in the hotel with Elaine's dad. Also, I didn't like how Kramer was being used. He was a disposable dimwitted nuisance, which didn't fit how his character would become, and the thing with the birds was lame. Otherwise, as everyone knows the main story is great.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:57:41 GMT
The Chinese Restaurant - A Doesn't get an A+ because the premise is slightly frustrating, though not nearly as much as in The Parking Garage. Elaine complaining made me feel stressed out. But this is a great episode for the most part.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 0:59:44 GMT
Although the episode is slow moving due to the real time attribute, it gives you a good look at who the characters really are. But the non-inclusion of Kramer brings it down a bit. B
Favorite quote: "For 50 bucks? I'd put my face in the soup and blow."
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 1:00:32 GMT
The Phone Message - A- A fun little episode. Kind of thin. In fact, Elaine and Kramer had no stories at all . I checked the script and Kramer has about 10 lines, even counting "Hey!" and such. Otherwise, very effective stuff, and this is my favorite George story to that point. He was definitely George by this episode.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 1:02:42 GMT
The Apartment - B This was very good on first couple viewings, but not as good for me anymore. Other than the "idiot" stuff, the humor is based on situations instead of dialogue. Maybe that's explaining it the wrong way, but knowing what's going to happen, this episode isn't as enjoyable. Plus, I didn't care for the team of landlords. But overall it's decent, and maybe even underrated.
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Post by sbtbfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 1:02:48 GMT
The Stranded - B- Everything at the party was hilarious. They really milked the comedy out of what happens at a party - boring people, "blend in" / "no, camp here", etc...I love it. But once the party's over, the rest of the material feels tacked on and weak. Elaine happening to walk in while Jerry pays the prostitute; how sitcommy is that? Unfortunately, the party only lasts one act iirc, so I give it the lowest decent grade, B-.
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